This is THE brake kit
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Can you please explain to me why this kit would be superior to the stock unit? Will it make our vehicles brake in a shorter distance, or give it less fade (not that I've ever read of anyone noticing it ), and will it work with the pre-pressurization (I forget Infiniti's lingo for this function...preview?) that we have now? Also, what's it cost installed?DCD said:
I'm not trying to downplay your post, just trying to understand why someone would want to switch out an already excellent brake system for something else. I understand, and agree with the comments I've seen elsewhere about the callipers looking wimpy...but they sure do work well!
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I'm afraid my technical knowledge is rather limited so apologies in advance if this makes absolutely no sense! :lol:
Basically with big brake kits such as this you are making every aspect of the braking system far more efficient.
Starting with the discs: by fitting larger diameter discs the calliper/pads will also be positioned further outward effectively taking effect of the lever-effect and hence giving you much better bite and stopping power. These discs are usually also thicker meaning the interior cooling vanes of the ventilated portion of the disc(the center bell is separate, made of alloy) have a greater chance to cool off the system.
This example also has grooves to clean the surface of the pad and allow the best performance from the friction material. On top of this the center-bell/disc are bolted together with a floating assembly, which is great for when there is lots of heat generation and hence metal expansion.
Callipers: they are much bigger, in this case have 4 pistons on each side of the calliper assembly pressing down on each of the pads. This assures an homogeneous force distribution throughout the pad-surface/disc-contact-patch.
Pads: they always supply great pads with these kits. Most have a good temperature rating allowing them to cope with fade much better. Extremely high friction compounds tend to squeak(like the Ferodos on my car) but this is for pads used for track and high performance sports cars.
Braided hoses: always included in these kits. Take the sponginess out of stock systems, give a nice hard pedal feel throughout the brake pedal travel range and generally compliment a system like this.
Brake fluid: usually included is Dot 5.1 fluid which is the most used on such applications and is glycol based (like Dot 3 & 4).
Basically all this translates on a great system which allows drivers of fast, and in this case heavy cars, to slow down fast, trouble free and safely...time and time again.
These systems are bolt on kits. There is no problems with ABS systems and the pre-pressurization on the FX, which to my understanding only readies operating cylinder pressure without applying brake force to the actual callipers.
This is one of the most expensive kits on the market. The retail price in Japan is $5,500 but there are other great Brembo kits for almost half this. Basically its total overkill on the Benz pictured...but I guess the owner prefers to be safe rather than sorry!
Basically with big brake kits such as this you are making every aspect of the braking system far more efficient.
Starting with the discs: by fitting larger diameter discs the calliper/pads will also be positioned further outward effectively taking effect of the lever-effect and hence giving you much better bite and stopping power. These discs are usually also thicker meaning the interior cooling vanes of the ventilated portion of the disc(the center bell is separate, made of alloy) have a greater chance to cool off the system.
This example also has grooves to clean the surface of the pad and allow the best performance from the friction material. On top of this the center-bell/disc are bolted together with a floating assembly, which is great for when there is lots of heat generation and hence metal expansion.
Callipers: they are much bigger, in this case have 4 pistons on each side of the calliper assembly pressing down on each of the pads. This assures an homogeneous force distribution throughout the pad-surface/disc-contact-patch.
Pads: they always supply great pads with these kits. Most have a good temperature rating allowing them to cope with fade much better. Extremely high friction compounds tend to squeak(like the Ferodos on my car) but this is for pads used for track and high performance sports cars.
Braided hoses: always included in these kits. Take the sponginess out of stock systems, give a nice hard pedal feel throughout the brake pedal travel range and generally compliment a system like this.
Brake fluid: usually included is Dot 5.1 fluid which is the most used on such applications and is glycol based (like Dot 3 & 4).
Basically all this translates on a great system which allows drivers of fast, and in this case heavy cars, to slow down fast, trouble free and safely...time and time again.
These systems are bolt on kits. There is no problems with ABS systems and the pre-pressurization on the FX, which to my understanding only readies operating cylinder pressure without applying brake force to the actual callipers.
This is one of the most expensive kits on the market. The retail price in Japan is $5,500 but there are other great Brembo kits for almost half this. Basically its total overkill on the Benz pictured...but I guess the owner prefers to be safe rather than sorry!
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Great explanation DCD! There are numerous guys on the Corvetteforum who swear by the Brembo Brake package...just a little too rich for my blood. I run Lo/High speed Auto-X and dragrace using Baer slotted rotors, Grandsport Calipers, Steelbraided lines and EBC Kevlar Pads on my Corvette. The upgrade made a significant improvement in braking with almost zero fade and excellent pedal feel. If you have the money to spend, it is well worth the investment.
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Simply put, big brake kits will give you a bit shorter stopping distance and zero fade in heavy braking situations, plus they look **** cool. Truthfully, though, in normal driving, you likely won't notice the difference over the stock units; they are designed for performance applications. I do recall reading a post of an owner in CO that experienced brake fade doing a lot of downhill mountain driving, so they would come in handy in situations like this. I'd have to say the majority of SUV owners that do this upgrade do it just for looks; you need to track your car or autoX to reap the performance benefits and there aren't many FX owners that do that.
They can, however provide added performance and safety to a heavily modified vehicle. If you strap a blower to your FX and can't help from keeping your foot out of the throttle, a brake upgrade is likely a good idea and could save your a$$.
Brembos are very nice, but there are others out there that perform just as well for less (Stoptech, Wilwood, AP, etc.). I'd lurk the Z forums and see what's popular. I've seen Z guys that drive the sh!t out of their cars with Stoptechs or AP and old guys that never go over the speed limit but just want to look good drop $5k on a set of huge Brembos, so make what you will of it.
They can, however provide added performance and safety to a heavily modified vehicle. If you strap a blower to your FX and can't help from keeping your foot out of the throttle, a brake upgrade is likely a good idea and could save your a$$.
Brembos are very nice, but there are others out there that perform just as well for less (Stoptech, Wilwood, AP, etc.). I'd lurk the Z forums and see what's popular. I've seen Z guys that drive the sh!t out of their cars with Stoptechs or AP and old guys that never go over the speed limit but just want to look good drop $5k on a set of huge Brembos, so make what you will of it.
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There are other ways to upgrade you braking system. Something like these steps:
-Step 1: slightly higher friction brake pads(something like Ferodo DS2500); braided brake lines; Dot 5.1 fluid. Results, better pedal feel and higher resistance to fade. This will not make you stop in a shorter space, just improves some of the aspects
-Step 2: step 1 + larger diameter grooved rotors and extended calliper mounts. This will give you better brake performance and shorter braking distances. There are lots of options here, I personally don't like drilled rotors, they will eventually crack in hard use so grooved is the way to go IMO. Also there is the choice of 1 piece discs or 2 piece discs. 2 piece rotors allow for the use of floating systems and when the disc wears out it will be cheaper to replace as you only change the outer disc portion, i.e. not the center bell.
-Step 3: full brake kit or step 2 + aftermarket calliper. Immense choice, Brembo, Ap Racing (owned by Brembo), Alcon, Wilwood, Stoptech, Project Miu, Endless, Tar-Ox, Move it....
In my job (road tester for car magazines) I have experienced brake fade on every single car I have tested since starting in this line of work (2 years now). I cannot explain what a great braking system does to a sports car package, and in the case of the FX it would not be a bad idea, but obviously you would not get the benefits every time you drive it. But I bet the next time you are racing up and down your favorite mountain roads and the brake pedal goes straight to the floor while very little stopping goes on you will wonder why you have not carried out any improvements to the brakes! Obviously there is an application for every car and a lot of the kits out there are simply overkill if you don't live on a race track. I'll be shortly replacing the front braking system on my car along with the rear discs....maybe I'll pass the gold Brembo callipers over to my dad and have him fit them on the FX!! Actually thats a **** good idea! 8)
-Step 1: slightly higher friction brake pads(something like Ferodo DS2500); braided brake lines; Dot 5.1 fluid. Results, better pedal feel and higher resistance to fade. This will not make you stop in a shorter space, just improves some of the aspects
-Step 2: step 1 + larger diameter grooved rotors and extended calliper mounts. This will give you better brake performance and shorter braking distances. There are lots of options here, I personally don't like drilled rotors, they will eventually crack in hard use so grooved is the way to go IMO. Also there is the choice of 1 piece discs or 2 piece discs. 2 piece rotors allow for the use of floating systems and when the disc wears out it will be cheaper to replace as you only change the outer disc portion, i.e. not the center bell.
-Step 3: full brake kit or step 2 + aftermarket calliper. Immense choice, Brembo, Ap Racing (owned by Brembo), Alcon, Wilwood, Stoptech, Project Miu, Endless, Tar-Ox, Move it....
In my job (road tester for car magazines) I have experienced brake fade on every single car I have tested since starting in this line of work (2 years now). I cannot explain what a great braking system does to a sports car package, and in the case of the FX it would not be a bad idea, but obviously you would not get the benefits every time you drive it. But I bet the next time you are racing up and down your favorite mountain roads and the brake pedal goes straight to the floor while very little stopping goes on you will wonder why you have not carried out any improvements to the brakes! Obviously there is an application for every car and a lot of the kits out there are simply overkill if you don't live on a race track. I'll be shortly replacing the front braking system on my car along with the rear discs....maybe I'll pass the gold Brembo callipers over to my dad and have him fit them on the FX!! Actually thats a **** good idea! 8)
Is most big brake kit come with high friction, high temp. pads? I heard that high temp. pads are overkill because for street use they might take a long time to reach their working temp. (i.e. best, optimun braking force/friction). Of course once they reach their working temp, they are fabulous and wont fade.
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e39ng...most pad manufacturers show what temp ranges their pads work at. Basically all you have to do is make sure your pads start working from 0~ degrees onwards. If you look at the high friction carbon metallic pads most don't start working until they have reached 200 degrees or so...avoid these for road use, as most of them are really noisy too.
As I said before you cannot go wrong with Ferodo DS2000-DS2500 pads for a fast road car.
As I said before you cannot go wrong with Ferodo DS2000-DS2500 pads for a fast road car.
DCD-
FYI you can get the 8 piston kit for your GT-R. It's a 380mm kit so you'll need 19" wheels.
The most obvious benefit is the fact each wheel will have four leading pad edges. That is what provides brake "bite" and is what is commonly referred to as "power" even though that is a misnomer.
The downside is... a set of pads from Pagid for those calipers is about $800... due to small quantities sold.
The cost/benefit is out of whack though. Going with big 19" wheels eliminates a lot of R compound tires... which also kills a lot of the benefit of using 4 pad calipers. In fact (and you already know this) going with 18" wheels eliminates a lot of R compounds since every R compound is avaliable in a 255/40R17... 19" wheels and tires aren't cheap... no real benefit, and all the negatives (fewer tire choices, rim damage is more likely, heavier wheel/tire combo).
I looked into it pretty deeply and discussed this with the Brembo engineers... not a good choice in the long run. The 355 rotors and the two pad calipers with good pads are the way to go... Or you could go with AP calipers and their goofy sized rotors (340x34mm) but then some people have been having problems with the rotors and uneven pad deposits.
Cheers!
FYI you can get the 8 piston kit for your GT-R. It's a 380mm kit so you'll need 19" wheels.
The most obvious benefit is the fact each wheel will have four leading pad edges. That is what provides brake "bite" and is what is commonly referred to as "power" even though that is a misnomer.
The downside is... a set of pads from Pagid for those calipers is about $800... due to small quantities sold.
The cost/benefit is out of whack though. Going with big 19" wheels eliminates a lot of R compound tires... which also kills a lot of the benefit of using 4 pad calipers. In fact (and you already know this) going with 18" wheels eliminates a lot of R compounds since every R compound is avaliable in a 255/40R17... 19" wheels and tires aren't cheap... no real benefit, and all the negatives (fewer tire choices, rim damage is more likely, heavier wheel/tire combo).
I looked into it pretty deeply and discussed this with the Brembo engineers... not a good choice in the long run. The 355 rotors and the two pad calipers with good pads are the way to go... Or you could go with AP calipers and their goofy sized rotors (340x34mm) but then some people have been having problems with the rotors and uneven pad deposits.
Cheers!
Sheeeit- that's a G500 Benz- list price 80Gs, 0-60 in something like 10 seconds, ugly as sh!t. It's one of the premier "I have more money than sense" cars, and people only buy 'em to show off. I'm not hatin' or nothing, but there's some cars I'll never understand for the price.DCD said:
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GTRPower....yes I know about the 8 pot kit for the GTR. A few demo cars run them here. The reason I have chosen the 355mm F50 kit is that I can fit it under the stock rims which I will be keeping for track driving along with some nice and sticky Bridgestone RE55S, and for road use I'll be shortly upgrading to 19" Volk CE28Ns, which are actually lighter than the stck 18" wheels. However here in Japan the R-compund tire choice is ok I suppose. You have a few choices like the 55s i've mentioned above, the yokohama A046/48 in SS/S/M and H compunds, Pirelli, Dunlop, Falken....persoanlly I think its more than enough.
I've tried the F50 kit on a lot of GTRs and it seems to perform very well. I also like the AP 6 pots but they are too expensive and I have no intention of getting myself into the endless warping AP-r disc situation a lot of my GTR buddies in the UK are in. Hence my choice. I'll be using DS2500 pads on the road and something a bit more agressive when on track, proably project Miu titan. I think this should by more than enough for my GTR set up. My car is around the 420PS mark so don't need anything more.
I've tried the F50 kit on a lot of GTRs and it seems to perform very well. I also like the AP 6 pots but they are too expensive and I have no intention of getting myself into the endless warping AP-r disc situation a lot of my GTR buddies in the UK are in. Hence my choice. I'll be using DS2500 pads on the road and something a bit more agressive when on track, proably project Miu titan. I think this should by more than enough for my GTR set up. My car is around the 420PS mark so don't need anything more.
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DCD...thanks for the explaination!
I've only experienced brake fade a couple times in my life as I've never done any track driving, but did get to enjoy several years of Autobahn racing
MustGoFaster was right about that guy from CO...I'd forgotten that story.
I think I'm just trying to justify the cost/benifit for myself and my style of driving. I've always had a lead foot, frequently doing triple-digit driving, but rarely do the kind of braking one would experience on a track, or mountain driving. So, I suspect that this isn't the kind of mod that would make sense for me.
I've only experienced brake fade a couple times in my life as I've never done any track driving, but did get to enjoy several years of Autobahn racing
MustGoFaster was right about that guy from CO...I'd forgotten that story.
I think I'm just trying to justify the cost/benifit for myself and my style of driving. I've always had a lead foot, frequently doing triple-digit driving, but rarely do the kind of braking one would experience on a track, or mountain driving. So, I suspect that this isn't the kind of mod that would make sense for me.
I am running those big brake solutions.
It decreases stop distance significantly nor the concern about the fade issue.
Some FXers here are running Brembo 8 pots/380mm
or AMG 8 pot/360mm as well as some other brake makers
they're all good solution,too.
One thing to remind, upgrade only front brakes too much aggressive lead to imbalance of overall performance.
The rear brakes should be matched. :idea:
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It decreases stop distance significantly nor the concern about the fade issue.
Some FXers here are running Brembo 8 pots/380mm
or AMG 8 pot/360mm as well as some other brake makers
they're all good solution,too.
One thing to remind, upgrade only front brakes too much aggressive lead to imbalance of overall performance.
The rear brakes should be matched. :idea:
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