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Emailed a performance shop featured in hot rod magazine and this is the response I got for requesting a port job on a 45.
Porting
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I have thought about having the heads ported,particularly since the ECU code is broken and enrichment is possible
Without commenting directly about this company,Are our heads iron or aluminum?Aluminum is half the cost(softer metel=less labor,I will find out)Good porters rarely advertise...they have enough business by word of mouth.
A while back,I was told of a great sm blk chevy porter did all the dirt track heads in the area,never done Buick heads.Went to the salvage yard,bought 3 pair of heads(correct part # for him to play /learn on.went into water passages in a 6 heads...went to a Buick head porter.
Yes,it is a good power source
Without commenting directly about this company,Are our heads iron or aluminum?Aluminum is half the cost(softer metel=less labor,I will find out)Good porters rarely advertise...they have enough business by word of mouth.
A while back,I was told of a great sm blk chevy porter did all the dirt track heads in the area,never done Buick heads.Went to the salvage yard,bought 3 pair of heads(correct part # for him to play /learn on.went into water passages in a 6 heads...went to a Buick head porter.
Yes,it is a good power source
45-50 HP is overly optimistic. These aren't some Domestic cast iron heads. They're already good coming from the factory. At most you might be able to net 20, but this would be at the very top of the rev range, and will come at the cost of low-end torque.
Look throughout the net forums for other Japanese makes. Honda guys usually try this stuff and look at the gains that they get, maybe 10 hp. Double this since ours are V8's.
Unless you're going to blueprint the engine, I don't think it's worth the effort. And if you're going to blueprint the engine, you might as well try putting the 5.6 L crank and rods in there. I'm sure our heads are better then theirs, so you might be near the 400 hp mark right off the bat w/out any tuning.
Look throughout the net forums for other Japanese makes. Honda guys usually try this stuff and look at the gains that they get, maybe 10 hp. Double this since ours are V8's.
Unless you're going to blueprint the engine, I don't think it's worth the effort. And if you're going to blueprint the engine, you might as well try putting the 5.6 L crank and rods in there. I'm sure our heads are better then theirs, so you might be near the 400 hp mark right off the bat w/out any tuning.
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net hp is even less then wheel hp so if I get 20 net from the porting i'll be more then happy lol. Im sure the flow bench testing is pretty accurate , going to check with one of my friends
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I had also considered blueprinting at 75K or beyond,and also porting then.But 20hp from 3000 up is obtainable and given what other mods yield,not out of line.Better than cam changes unless the racing program yields interested manufacturers...which it may
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I have no personnel knowledge,nor do I expect to acquire it...whether or not Honda heads flow better than X.Y, or Z.What I know about heads follows brieflyBuick 3.8 and 3800,and 455 heads flow extremely well which is why those engines outperform their competitors.The 3800sc motor is capable of more torque than any other GM powerplant,but it is old,cheap to produce and not hi tech,so money goes into other sound flashy motors...but GM does well with pushrod power.The Ford 4.6 will never outperform the 5.0
Mid range torque is achived by flow at low lift levels,you get that with flow velocity.max power is a combination of flow volume and velocity,but a good porter tailers his work to your objective.I know of no production motor that cannot be improved with a good porter.The porter will usually tell you if a cam change is usefulCost benefit...20hp for 1500 is not out of line after the easy stuff is done
Mid range torque is achived by flow at low lift levels,you get that with flow velocity.max power is a combination of flow volume and velocity,but a good porter tailers his work to your objective.I know of no production motor that cannot be improved with a good porter.The porter will usually tell you if a cam change is usefulCost benefit...20hp for 1500 is not out of line after the easy stuff is done
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Spoken like a true prodigybrnjug said:
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Having some confidence that FI will be available by next summer,I am proceeding forward with the head porting effort(at least Grubbs).FI with heads will gain another 20HP at the wheels;but more critical, porting for FI is different than porting for NA.With this sissue resolved,theheads should be out of here before x-mas
Porters are a lot lke painters(the gases I guess),it happens when it happens
Porters are a lot lke painters(the gases I guess),it happens when it happens
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I do not believe so,but PM him...very important that the porting match the use..and torque converters kick ...and are cheap...$450?!
A re-flash and ground wiring will allow you to go w/o the valve body for improved shifting...less than,but much better than stock
A re-flash and ground wiring will allow you to go w/o the valve body for improved shifting...less than,but much better than stock
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Hmm...I thought I heard Jacen mention something about this the last time I was at LMW and we were talking about a custom supercharger for my 45. He said something about you wanting to clean things up to get the most out of the s/c. I might have misunderstood. But thanx for the clarification shady. I have been really busy with work so I have not had time to get back to LMW yet but as soon as I get some free time I have to get started on the torque convertor and the CAI. And while I'm at it I might as well get me some iridium colder plugs.
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The ground wiring guy is in Canada and needed to add 2 wires and test them.I will get in touch again!
Apparently,there are few 45's in Canada
By cleaning up the flow,you get more air with less work from the blower(or said differently,more air from the same work)
Apparently,there are few 45's in Canada
By cleaning up the flow,you get more air with less work from the blower(or said differently,more air from the same work)
brnjug, what about extrude honing? Or is that process best left to cast iron heads. I know quite a few years ago this was a great process for cleaning up the ports when someone didn't want the full porting job. I remember seeing many a CI head port and they were pretty rough and some even had CI remnants in the ports that I am sure caused flow problems.
From my VW racing days (I had a high 12 second street bug
), porting and larger valves was the only way to get any real horsepower. But that was on a inefficient engine. Also headwork usually included intake, exhaust and cam changes to really get the benefit of the heads. Of course, added displacement didn't hurt either.
On our engines, I would bet that the initial state is MUCH more efficient than what I was used to. :lol:
After adding the plenum spacer, I remember that the 35 intake tract was quite smooth in the plenum area so I would guess that the intake and exhaust ports are probably pretty efficient so am betting that portingn gains would be more in line with what you are talking about at 10-20hp.
From my VW racing days (I had a high 12 second street bug
), porting and larger valves was the only way to get any real horsepower. But that was on a inefficient engine. Also headwork usually included intake, exhaust and cam changes to really get the benefit of the heads. Of course, added displacement didn't hurt either. On our engines, I would bet that the initial state is MUCH more efficient than what I was used to. :lol:
After adding the plenum spacer, I remember that the 35 intake tract was quite smooth in the plenum area so I would guess that the intake and exhaust ports are probably pretty efficient so am betting that portingn gains would be more in line with what you are talking about at 10-20hp.
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Well this will surely cover a lot of ground
-cylinder honing is a finishing process to the cylinder walls to best seat your rings in a new or rebuilt motor(nothing to do with heads
-blue printing is a name for a very precise standard of assembling a motor where all clearances are the same within a very tight tolerance and all parts weight the same within a very tight tolerance and all rotating assembles are balanced within a very small tolerance.You make a bit more power because of the accuracy of the tolerances and weights
-porting,yes these are more modern engines than many of us cut our teeth on,but a good porter will make gains in flow,velocity or both my careful grinding(not hogging out a port),but understanding what changes will yield what gains.To improve mid lift performanc(lift at the cam) typically the velocity needs to be improved,hogging out a port my yield big flow numbers at the max lift of the cam,but be sluggisn at low lift,therfore sluggish off the line and bottom end
Good/proven porters are worth their weight in gold and they know it.Typically,the heads and cams are the big power producers shortof FI.
Flow characteristics for NA are tested at hi vaccum to low vacuum at appropriate lift levels while flow for FI is done at apprpriate boost levels 5-30 pounds of boost.Judging good porting is not done by touch or very muchby sight,but by flow numbers across a range(some porters use epoxy bumps to turn or speed air to get what they want,others build that into the curves)
I have only used 3 porters,one who does mostly off shore racing boats and cup racing,the other does Subaru team cars and some other team cars and a new class import NHRA racing motor original design head,etcHe is very hot and good and the last retired,did Busch cars and Buick.The porter typically works with the manifold,heads and cams selection.In our arena,titanium valves will stay and same for cams(cost and availability unless otherwise suggested)Some of you may recall I questioned Crawford on their plenum since it balanced flow,did it also provide adequate volume...they never answered a very routine question,and along came the spacer and took a big share of that market...surprise!
Extrude honing,did not know it was still around.I do not believe you save dollars here.These are aluminum heads,cheaper than iron so extrude simply opens them up...should improve,but not maxed or targeted
CI ??
-cylinder honing is a finishing process to the cylinder walls to best seat your rings in a new or rebuilt motor(nothing to do with heads
-blue printing is a name for a very precise standard of assembling a motor where all clearances are the same within a very tight tolerance and all parts weight the same within a very tight tolerance and all rotating assembles are balanced within a very small tolerance.You make a bit more power because of the accuracy of the tolerances and weights
-porting,yes these are more modern engines than many of us cut our teeth on,but a good porter will make gains in flow,velocity or both my careful grinding(not hogging out a port),but understanding what changes will yield what gains.To improve mid lift performanc(lift at the cam) typically the velocity needs to be improved,hogging out a port my yield big flow numbers at the max lift of the cam,but be sluggisn at low lift,therfore sluggish off the line and bottom end
Good/proven porters are worth their weight in gold and they know it.Typically,the heads and cams are the big power producers shortof FI.
Flow characteristics for NA are tested at hi vaccum to low vacuum at appropriate lift levels while flow for FI is done at apprpriate boost levels 5-30 pounds of boost.Judging good porting is not done by touch or very muchby sight,but by flow numbers across a range(some porters use epoxy bumps to turn or speed air to get what they want,others build that into the curves)
I have only used 3 porters,one who does mostly off shore racing boats and cup racing,the other does Subaru team cars and some other team cars and a new class import NHRA racing motor original design head,etcHe is very hot and good and the last retired,did Busch cars and Buick.The porter typically works with the manifold,heads and cams selection.In our arena,titanium valves will stay and same for cams(cost and availability unless otherwise suggested)Some of you may recall I questioned Crawford on their plenum since it balanced flow,did it also provide adequate volume...they never answered a very routine question,and along came the spacer and took a big share of that market...surprise!
Extrude honing,did not know it was still around.I do not believe you save dollars here.These are aluminum heads,cheaper than iron so extrude simply opens them up...should improve,but not maxed or targeted
CI ??
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Extrude honing is performed on the intake runners to smooth the surface for improved flow. Maybe good for a few hp depending on the quality of the stock casting.
To get a realistic $/hp benifit it will require an integrated approach. Head porting without increasing valve size and changing cam profile won't do much. Any mods in this area will require fuel mapping.
A package of mods needs to be developed. The most likely source... someone who races this engine.
Anbody?
To get a realistic $/hp benifit it will require an integrated approach. Head porting without increasing valve size and changing cam profile won't do much. Any mods in this area will require fuel mapping.
A package of mods needs to be developed. The most likely source... someone who races this engine.
Anbody?
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