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Discussion Starter #1
Now this story is very sad but I just don't get the parents point. Yes having a back-up camera is a wonderful “option” (I don’t have one btw) but requiring a company to make them standard is just absurd. I can understand that the parents are morning and can feel their pain but what happened to personal responsibility here? The Mom says “It’s our fault BUT if we only had a back-up warning system blah, blah, blah…” But?!?! There’s no “but” here. It was a tragic accident plain and simple. There is no other scapegoat you can blame. Are they just looking to cash-in maybe? A huge settlement doesn’t bring your daughter back people. It just mainly lines the pockets of the lawyers and causes the price of all other Infinitis to increase.

By saying that all “BIG” SUVs should now be required to come with back-up warning systems to prevent these occurrences is like saying that all SUV’s should come standard with inflatable rafts in case the owner drives into a river. Ridiculous, just ridiculous. On a side note, the QX4 is NOT a large SUV. It’s actually kind of small so that also blows a big hole in their argument. Of course on the news report they show a H2 of all things in their demonstration. Geeezzz…

Our tort system is really out of control. It's not Infiniti's fault they bought an Infiniti without a back-up camera/warning system. They had that choice when they bought a vehicle. It's also not the SUV's fault the daughter got run over, it's the parents. Very sad but true. The first question I would ask of the parents is why in the heck was the little girl on the ground unmonitored behind the vehicle in the first place?? Again, two words: Personal Responsibly.

Read the story below and tell me if I'm off base here:


<I'd post the link off http://www.wfaa.com but it's registration required>
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Garland family sues carmaker over toddler's death

06:23 PM CST on Friday, November 19, 2004

By DON WALL / WFAA-TV

The family of a Garland girl who was accidentally killed last month when her father ran over her is suing a major car manufacturer for negligence.

"You just can't imagine the absence that is in our hearts right now with the loss of our daughter," mother Rachel Clemens said. "She rocked our world ... she was everything to us."

The family is suing Nissan, the parent company of Infiniti. They claim new back-up video cameras or sensors which detect objects behind a vehicle were available, and should have been installed in their SUV.

"This manufacturer was already putting it on some of its other vehicles, and it should have put it on this one," attorney Windle Turley said.

In a phone interview with News 8, Nissan/Infiniti spokesman Kyle Bazemore said the child's death was "very sad, very tragic," but added that even when an SUV comes equipped with a back-up video camera, it's not fool-proof.

"It's a convenience; it's not a substitute for proper reversing procedures," Bazemore said. "Drivers should always turn around and look."

"Yes, it's our responsibility, but so many tragic things have happened with children because of that," Rachel Clemens said.

Some research suggests as SUVs get bigger, so does the blind spot to the rear. Consumer groups estimate between 150 and 200 people - mostly toddlers - are killed in back-up accidents every year. Increasingly, consumers are demanding the new technology.

"As you can see, if you had a child laying on a tricycle or bicycle, laying behind you, you would be able to see that sitting in the driveway," said John Boyd of JR's Custom Auto as he demonstrated one of the back-up cameras.

"Our contention is that safety of this nature should not be optional, ever," Turley said.

The Clemens family believes if their SUV had a back-up camera, Adrianna would still be alive.

"She was my pride and joy," Rachel Clemens said. "She was a wonderful two-year-old that always had a smile on her face."

Turley said this is not just a case against Nissan; it's a case against the auto industry.

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There was a video on the report. Here's the link to it (may require registration as well)

http://www.wfaa.com/cgi-bin/bi/video/makeadplaylist.pl?title=www.wfaa.com/041119_1800backupsuit_am.wmv&adurl=&adclickthru=&adgraphi
 

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Golden Boy said:
Our tort system is really out of control. It's not Infiniti's fault they bought an Infiniti without a back-up camera/warning system. They had that choice when they bought a vehicle. It's also not the SUV's fault the daughter got run over, it's the parents. Very sad but true. The first question I would ask of the parents is why in the heck was the little girl on the ground unmonitored behind the vehicle in the first place?? Again, two words: Personal Responsibly.
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I agree. It is just like that McDonalds story. A person is blaming the company based on his personal action.

It's a very sad story and I feel for her since I have two little kids but suing Nissan is not the right thing to do.
 

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The sad thing is obviously that the child died. However, this being the land of greedy lawyers, it would not surprise me if Infiniti settles out of court.
 

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I hope that they don't settle out of court. The driver is lucky that they're not getting a manslaughter charge against them, and it's probably only because it was their own child.

I've been in this situation myself, and it was only because I saw the child's parent running up behind my car as a was backing out of a spot at an apartment complex, that that kid didn't get run over. And that was in a little Hyundai...so don't try and blame it on the fact that the vehicle was an SUV. I'd probably still be in a Korean jail if the mom hadn't been there. :shock:
 

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We now live in a world where no one takes responsibility it seems. If you drink & drive and kill someone, then you blame the bar that served you drinks.....then they blame the company that makes and sells them the alcohol, and they pass on the price tag to their shareholders (cause almost every big company is public - another story in itself).

No one these days ever wants to pay for their own mistake! It's starting right at the level of a child too in most cases. Children today are so sheltered from the ugliness of human nature it seems. Their parents want to protect their child in all aspects both good and bad. Understandably a parent who loves their child doesn't want to see their child even suffer rejection from other kids, let alone physical pain.....but hey! there's a happy medium i believe. Making sure your child has the "hip" clothes of the day no matter how much money that is so that your child doesn't suffer or experience regular human nature from other children really affects that childs later years as far as "sucking it up, and accecting life and it's unfairness". (there's an article about this in a magazine this month about America's children and how little of hardship they've seen in both material and natural forms - i can't think of the magazine right now, but it's a very real problem)

Anyways, it really bugs me these days how everyone wants someone to blame....i don't think this is a new thing in life, i just believe only recently the world tolerated this! Why? I don't know? Seems like the majority of people would agree that it's out of control, yet the jurys continue to find in favor of these ignorant, irresponsible people?? Amazes me!

Can I get down off of my soap box now? hehehehe, aaaaaahhhhh, but being alive is a great thing, so, i'm just going to hop in my FX and cruise to Starbucks! But if I spill that drink or any part of it inside my FX i'm gonna SUE THEM for that, and then sue my mother and father for having me which inturn caused the spill...oh ya, and Infiniti for not making a device that makes it impossible to spill a coffee inside your FX!
 

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Have to disagree with everyone here.

Think about airbags. They were very expensive options in the 80's. Now they are everywhere and do we notice the additional cost? No. I think we all know the benefit. I believe there were even a few lawsuits involved as well until manufacturers realized that safety was a good thing.

Unit cost for a backup system is minimal when you spread it across an entire line. Say it adds another $20-25 to the price of a car for sensors and $100-130 for a camera. I'd spend that extra bit of cash if it meant the chance of me hitting someone/thing while backing up was significantly less. The manufacturer could pass all or the bulk of the cost on to consumers and theres a good chance we wouldnt notice it, much like airbags. **** backup sensors are a standard feature in plenty of cars these days, have been since ~2002.

I'm not going to spend $4000 to get it though. Tech package just makes no sense. The marketer that bundled options for the FX should be shot.

I doubt the guy is trying to get money out of the company. Just trying to get a backup system included as part of the standard equipment. Pretty noble and how would you feel if you accidentally ran over your kid? They get to a certain age and its tough just keeping up with them. Is proper backup procedure to get out of your car 5 times and look behind it before you back up?

Even with proper backup procedures my guess is that most of us (without a backup camera/sensor) would run over a toddler if they were directly behind the FX. You can't see squat out of the back of the car. SUVs have become taller, wider, engines louder and interiors more isolated. Means its harder to hear and see out of.

Yes the tort system is screwed up but at the same time I think this case is worth pursuing. If they lobby nothing will happen. Unfortunately the only way to get the attention of companies and have them to the right thing is to hit them where it counts. My guess is that companies will do the right thing 3 times out of 10 (Vioxx anyone?). Lobbying is ineffective... so how else can you affect change?

Lastly jill, you're **** right people shelter kids. Innocence is a beautiful thing. It only takes a second to take it away, then it's gone forever. Have some kids and maybe you'll be able to better understand.

People making comments about poor parenting might want to rethink. Granted the kid might have not been supervised or maybe the kid was in the yard playing, wanted to say goodbye and ran behind the car.
 

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I would charge the parents with bringing a frivalous lawsuit. It was a tragic accident. No one was to blame. You might as well sue the tire manufactures for not installing smaller tires which would have enabled the driver to see the child thru the back glass. GeeZ!
 

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WOW! That's terrible!

There is always going to be some new safety feature on the rise, you cannot expect it to be standard on all cars immedietly. HOW many cars have rear-view cameras as an option? 3 or 4?

Side airbags are not standard, but most pay for them as an option. Anyone who testdrives a car and thinks it's too big to see everything behind them should just get the rear-view camera! If you cannot afford the option, you are not going to be able to afford the car if the option was a standard feature anyway soooooo.

There logic is weak IMO
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Taz, I can see where you are coming from but there has to be a point where we stop coddling people and have them take responsibility for their actions. There are plenty of places to have a back up cameras installed in any vehicle. The market offers it and if the parents want it, they can have it. It's as easy as that.

The report suggests that about 150-200 kids a year die as a result of being backed over (regardless of the vehicle size btw). While this seems to be a large number, when you consider how many kids die each year, this is a rather small percentage. I'm sure the number of kids that die from cars driving off into water is just as high. Do automakers need to know install rafts in all cars now as well? The occurrences are just about the same. I don't see any difference here and both are absurd. Sh1t happens sometimes and while tragic, it's life :(
 

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Ugh. Just wait til they try to lobby for cameras in front of the car. People will complain they actually have to look in front of their vehicle when driving :?. While i like my backup camera, I don't rely on it. Just like that little sentence on the bottom of the screen "Look behind you before backing up". I do many rear camera installs and am amazed at how many people think they no longer need to look behind them when reversing. Even funnier are the ones where the screen is part of a new rearview mirror. If you're already looking at the mirror... :?
 

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Another lame frivilous lawsuit in the making...it is the parent's fault for causing the tragic accident and he shouldn't blame anyone but himself. The family is just trying to twist the story hoping to make some $$ out of their own daughter's death. To me, that is disgusting...
 

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tazdevl said:
Have to disagree with everyone here.

Think about airbags. They were very expensive options in the 80's. Now they are everywhere and do we notice the additional cost? No. I think we all know the benefit. I believe there were even a few lawsuits involved as well until manufacturers realized that safety was a good thing.
And this relates to the backup camera how? Your statement about the lawsuits is pointless unless you can back it up with references.

Unit cost for a backup system is minimal when you spread it across an entire line. Say it adds another $20-25 to the price of a car for sensors and $100-130 for a camera. I'd spend that extra bit of cash if it meant the chance of me hitting someone/thing while backing up was significantly less. The manufacturer could pass all or the bulk of the cost on to consumers and theres a good chance we wouldnt notice it, much like airbags. **** backup sensors are a standard feature in plenty of cars these days, have been since ~2002.
So should they install the lane departure warning system as standard? Should they add a headsup display with infrared system a la Cadillac? Should they add run flat tires? Do you really think that this doesn't all add up, and that each of these won't save lives?

I'm not going to spend $4000 to get it though. Tech package just makes no sense. The marketer that bundled options for the FX should be shot.
So, $4k isn't enough for you to justify the added safety, but $120-155 is okay? What price does make sense to you for the life of a child? Are you getting my point?

I doubt the guy is trying to get money out of the company. Just trying to get a backup system included as part of the standard equipment. Pretty noble and how would you feel if you accidentally ran over your kid? They get to a certain age and its tough just keeping up with them. Is proper backup procedure to get out of your car 5 times and look behind it before you back up?
No, but should it be any different than if you were in a car, as happened to me (see my post above)?

Even with proper backup procedures my guess is that most of us (without a backup camera/sensor) would run over a toddler if they were directly behind the FX. You can't see squat out of the back of the car. SUVs have become taller, wider, engines louder and interiors more isolated. Means its harder to hear and see out of.
The kid who was behind my vehicle was on a tricycle...can't think of any vehicle that I would have seen him from without a camera (which is why I'm happy to have one).

Yes the tort system is screwed up but at the same time I think this case is worth pursuing. If they lobby nothing will happen. Unfortunately the only way to get the attention of companies and have them to the right thing is to hit them where it counts. My guess is that companies will do the right thing 3 times out of 10 (Vioxx anyone?). Lobbying is ineffective... so how else can you affect change?
And what exactly are you suggesting that Infiniti did wrong here (besides having deep pockets)? Why do you think that they should suck up any of the blame? Are the parents to blame at all, in your opinion?

Lastly jill, you're **** right people shelter kids. Innocence is a beautiful thing. It only takes a second to take it away, then it's gone forever. Have some kids and maybe you'll be able to better understand.
Cheap shot...I've got a kid...try aiming at me.

People making comments about poor parenting might want to rethink. Granted the kid might have not been supervised or maybe the kid was in the yard playing, wanted to say goodbye and ran behind the car.
There were about a thousand times that I escaped death as a kid, and nearly every one of them taught me something about how not to do something stupid the next time. $hit happens, and people do die in unfortunate circumstances such as this, but that doesn't mean that anyone was at fault. Why must we always assign blame? :roll:
 

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It's one thing to say the child got killed due to a faulty parking brake, and then go ahead and sue the arse off the manufacturer. It's another thing when you were behind the wheel i.e. in full control, but still managed to run somebody over. After all, if one feels BC is such a must-have safety feature why is it then that the parents haven't installed one on their own dime ? Such bullcrap lawsuits do nothing except add to the cost of the products we buy. Because guess who'll be picking up Nissan's legal tab after dust settles ?
 

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I thought this article was fairly suitable for this thread....

Bill Gates' Recent High School Address to MT. WHITNEY HIGH SCHOOL in Visalia, CA.
Love him or hate him, he sure hits the nail on the head with this! To
anyone with kids of any age, here's some advice. Bill Gates recently gave a speech at a High School about 11 things they did not and will not learn in school.
He talked about how feel-good; politically correct teachings created a generation of kids with no concept of reality and how this concept set them up for failure in the real world.

Rule 1: Life is not fair -- get used to it!
Rule 2: The world won't care about your self-esteem. The world will
expect you to accomplish something BEFORE you feel good about yourself.
Rule 3: You will NOT make $60,000 a year right out of high school. You won't be a vice-president with a car phone
until you earn both.
Rule 4: If you think your teacher is tough, wait till you get a boss.
Rule 5: Flipping burgers are not beneath your dignity. Your Grandparents had a different word for burger flipping -- they called it opportunity.
Rule 6: If you mess up, it's not your parents' fault, so don't whine
about your mistakes, learn from them.
Rule 7: Before you were born, your parents weren't as boring as they are now. They got that way from paying your bills, cleaning your clothes and listening to you talk about how cool you thought you were. So before you save the rain forest from the parasites of your parent's generation, try delousing the closet in your own room.
Rule 8: Your school may have done away with winners and losers, but life HAS NOT. In some schools they have abolished failing grades and they'll give you as MANY TIMES as you want to get the right answer. This doesn't bear the slightest resemblance to ANYTHING in real life.
Rule 9: Life is not divided into semesters. You don't get summers off
and very few employers are interested in helping you FIND YOURSELF. Do that on your own time.
Rule 10: Television is NOT real life. In real life people actually have to leave the coffee shop and go to jobs.
Rule 11: Be nice to nerds. Chances are you'll end up working for one. :idea:
 

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tazdevl said:
~2002.
Lastly jill, you're **** right people shelter kids. Innocence is a beautiful thing. It only takes a second to take it away, then it's gone forever. Have some kids and maybe you'll be able to better understand.

People making comments about poor parenting might want to rethink. Granted the kid might have not been supervised or maybe the kid was in the yard playing, wanted to say goodbye and ran behind the car.

Apparently, these parents weren't "sheltering" their child properly or she wouldn't have been run over in the first place. They need to accept that responsibility---not blame somebody else.
With your attitude regarding responsiblity, you won't be teaching your children much about that aspect of growing up.
 

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Tazdevl, What you are saying to me is one of the major problems with people today, as many others have stated,"Take responsibility for your own actions!" Hellooooo!!!!
 

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i think that all cars should be covered in 3 feet of bubble wrap...and each bubble should have a camera on it with artificial intelligence to automatically avoid all possible collisions....and if the car happens to touch some kid, it automatically deducts all the cash in my savings account, sends it to the parents, and files a law suit against me, the car manufacturer, and any local establishments in the area of the accident.
 

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...I'd hate to burst your bubble.
 

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PINITI-FX said:
...I'd hate to burst your bubble.
actually, you'd like to burst my bubble. you'll get a check from my account for 12.63$ :lol:
 

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I dont think any SUV had a rear camera when they bought the QX4. What year was it? How can they claim they should have something if it wasnt available on any SUV that model year?
 
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