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Discussion Starter #1
Moderators - please move if you think there's a better place for this post, I didn't want to hijack the For Sale group buy thread.

All, I've been seriously debating whether to join in on GB#2 for the 10K HIDs and doing some research when I came across this link. Although written in 2002 the concepts presented are not time-sensitive. It is well written, logical, and *sounds* authoritative.

http://www.intellexual.net/hid.html

Here's another write-up with less inflammatory oratory than the first link but with the same general ideas.

http://faq.auto.light.tripod.com/hl-hid-bulbs.htm

Finally, here's a site with a more scientific bent with an explanation and java demonstration of black body radiation emissions and kelvin color temperature. Change the value in the "Change the temperature" field and then see the effect in the "Appearance" circle at the top. This apparently will simulate higher temp HIDs and actually somewhat validates what the other guys were saying.

http://www.usask.ca/chemistry/courses/243/links/BBR/BBR.html

(Note - this is the disclaimer part) - I am not trying to dissuade others from making the investment in the bulbs. Nor am I trying to say that those of you who have purchased 8K or 10K bulbs made some kind of a mistake - not at all. I came across this link because I was trying to educate myself. You should make your own decision based on the information presented.

I do want to hear what everybody thinks. Honestly, I'm still undecided about the 10K buy because of the ultra high BLING factor, but now I'm not sure and am leaning to possibly just finding a good set of 6K bulbs.

Hopefully this will prompt some good discussion here on this forum too.... Please no talk about Injen in this thread! :roll:
 

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Well for me, the 10K bulbs have actually helped driving condtions for me a bit. Since I recieved them, Taiwan has been through a major rain and wind storm. During that time I did notice the lights were brighter and whiter than the phillips 6000k I replaced with at the begining. I was also able to see better at night in the rain with the 10k.

Thats my little opinion on using the 10K's.

Jim :p
 

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If you live or drive in a rural area where there's hardly any street light, then stick with the stock bulbs. They definitely give off more light. However, if you live & drive in bright urban areas, then go for it. They still kick the livin crap out of halogens in terms of lumens.
 

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4k, 5k, 6k up to 10k, no matter which one you it's all good. reasons for upgrade/downgrade are b/c the bightness, but I think one of the major reason is simply b/c ppl want to achieve certain look or the overall visual effect of the car at night.

So if the bightness is your #1 concern read all about it online. If you care more about the looks. 6k, 8k and 10k each creates different color and feels. matching it with the right color of fog light, clearance light, certainly will make the car look even better at night. 8)

After all no matter which color temp ppl decide to get, in the end they are all H.I.D light. It's much brighter than the conventional lighting. :D

ShadyJC, looks like brightness is a huge factor for you, so I guess you should make your decision base on your research online. :lol:
 

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Also check out My-Sweet45's pics (links in the GB thread); there are some good foreward looking comparison shots. Otherwise, everyone above pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Don't wait too long to decide. Due to the speed the GB filled the minimum, we are closing it out early. You can still get in, but must be able to make payment by 9/24.
 

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i have tried EM ALL

on the fx too...


which goes to ask.....


has any of the "haters" tried em in the fx's optics??? EACH car will outout the light differently, due to the shape of the lense/reflector....

i dont know why so many take offense to these (i have received many pm's asking "how i dont get pulled over"...., "why dont i drive at night,"....." how could i rice out such a nice car", etc......)....


im not going to argue this point; your concern is well made and legitimate.....

IMO (only)... ask those with the same light optics and bulbs in question.....

i haven't had EVEN ONE buyer complain about them..... thats the bottom line, IMO...

as popular as they are, im sure you could resell them (or ebay them)....


esemes

ps-the 6000K's (ultinon's) are nearly the same appearance as the 4500/4300 oem's and are 300-340 a set. i can try to get them too, if you want....
 

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Thanks Shady,this is a very opinionated area.I had 6000K in and replaced with 8000k which I like.I have no need to go further and did feel an improvement for my sight wiht the 8000K
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Guys, don't get all emotional and defensive on me.

I'm not passing judgement on the bulbs and not knocking your choice, understanding that whether you decide to buy lightbulbs or an intake or chrome wheels or put new speakers or custom paint graphics on the side of your car, we are all doing this for our own reasons and they are all valid if they make you feel good about owning and driving your car.

One of the great things about a forum like this is that it allows us to ask questions and share knowledge. It's obvious that there is a real enthusiasm on this board about our FXes, and (apparently) a fair amount of discretionary income to support that enthusiasm, which means that just about all the upgrades and toys are probably within everybody's reach.

All I'm trying to point out is that the kelvin is a measure of color, not of brightness. The proper measure of brightness is the lumen - the 6K, 8K, 10K etc. is not a descriptor of lumens but it can easily be mistaken for that.

It's easy for the casual browser on this forum to get caught up in the frenzy of upgrading their headlamps to a higher number... with the mistaken assumption that a 6K is not as good/bright as an 8K which is not as good/bright as a 10K bulb. (actually that should be 10KK to be technically accurate, right?)

As long as people understand that you are buying COLOR and not BRIGHTNESS then that's fine. It was a revelation to me (maybe I'm the only slow one around here) so I thought I'd pass the information along. No offense meant.

My-Sweet45, your pics look awesome. Fogs, headlamps and LEDs match perfectly.

esemes, GB is a great deal, thanks for taking the effort to set it up.

peace
 

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shady-

you're welcome... i hope i didnt come off too brash- i am not at all upset.....

i am glad that you give data on the HID lumens issue, as it is something all should understand.

my offer of the GB stands, and i hope you take advantage of it (if interested)

ese
 

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It's all good in the 'hood. ;)
 

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ShadyJC said:
or put new speakers or custom paint graphics on the side of your car / Graphics! Who in their right mind would hang graphics on the side of their FX? Now speakers, that's different, I hung mine right under the mirrors - beats the heck outta bright lights anyday! (Can you Hear me now?)
 

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Regarding the brightness of the 10k's, I know nothing about the way lumens are measured, but I do know that these things are brighter, as confirmed by comments by both my wife & daughter, and the fact that I've been flashed a few times (presumably because they though my brights were on) in the last couple days. I can VERY clearly see the level line ahead as I'm driving at night...couldn't with the standard HIDs.

Regarding the rice factor...I'm a 45 yr. old WASP conservative, with a plain white vehicle (ok, so the FX is far from plain). I've got no desire to "pimp my ride"...to each his own though. That said, I love this mod!...well worth the $.

The installation was a bit of a PIA, especially getting the air filter box out...maybe the 35 is easier. Took roughly 20-30 mins. once we (Bradical and I) got the right tools and my wife's compact mirror (you'll need it to see the clips inside that hold the bulb in place). No alignment was necessary...there are notches on the base of the bulb to line up in the housing.

I'm looking forward to seeing how these are in the rain...Ivan should be up this way around Sunday according to the current prediction...highly diminished though.

Esemes did a fine job on the first buy...two thumbs up!
 

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I'm a 45 yr. old WASP conservative, with a plain white vehicle (ok, so the FX is far from plain). I've got no desire to "pimp my ride"...
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

What kept me from the first GB was the "rice" factor...but they look so cool :p
 

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Discussion Starter #14
ShadyJC said:
All I'm trying to point out is that the kelvin is a measure of color, not of brightness.
Ok, before someone goes ballistic I need to correct what I wrote.

To be clear -- the KELVIN is a unit of measurement for temperature, similiar to a DEGREE. Note that it is a Unit, not a Scale of temperature, like what we commonly know as Celsius or Fahrenheit - you need a unit and a scale together to properly express temperature, i.e. 90 degrees fahrenheit. A kelvin is a kelvin and that's it.

So that's a great science lesson, what does it have to do with lightbulbs?

A kelvin is also used as the measurement of color temperature - the kelvin rating of a given bulb is the measurement of the color of light radiated by an object while it is being heated, as seen by the human eye. The human eye sees low Kelvin color temperatures, such as 2400 K as red. We see very high color temperatures like 10,000 K as more purple-ish. Finding the right number in the middle is the key to having the right bulbs in your FX... so enjoy the choices you have!

Whew! Glad we cleared that up.

Oh, one more thing... as for the "rice factor" of the 10,000 K bulbs, since I am of Asian descent I guess it's almost an obligation for me, huh? ::roll:
 

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can someone explain how i'm suppose to install these babies? i'm kinda lost and not sure exactly what i'm suppose to do.
 

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ShadyJC said:
ShadyJC said:
All I'm trying to point out is that the kelvin is a measure of color, not of brightness.
Ok, before someone goes ballistic I need to correct what I wrote.

To be clear -- the KELVIN is a unit of measurement for temperature, similiar to a DEGREE. Note that it is a Unit, not a Scale of temperature, like what we commonly know as Celsius or Fahrenheit - you need a unit and a scale together to properly express temperature, i.e. 90 degrees fahrenheit. A kelvin is a kelvin and that's it.

So that's a great science lesson, what does it have to do with lightbulbs?

A kelvin is also used as the measurement of color temperature - the kelvin rating of a given bulb is the measurement of the color of light radiated by an object while it is being heated, as seen by the human eye. The human eye sees low Kelvin color temperatures, such as 2400 K as red. We see very high color temperatures like 10,000 K as more purple-ish. Finding the right number in the middle is the key to having the right bulbs in your FX... so enjoy the choices you have!

Whew! Glad we cleared that up.

Oh, one more thing... as for the "rice factor" of the 10,000 K bulbs, since I am of Asian descent I guess it's almost an obligation for me, huh? ::roll:
ShadyJC: you shouldn't have to worry about offending anyone, I'm sure everyone here are very mature and respect other ppl's comments. After all, you started this discussion right? :wink:



it's all good :lol:
 

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ShadyJC said:
Oh, one more thing... as for the "rice factor" of the 10,000 K bulbs, since I am of Asian descent I guess it's almost an obligation for me, huh? ::roll:
Well, my daughter is half Korean, so I only installed one bulb...would that make me half-lit, or half-wit? :D
 

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Can someone tell me how to remove the power fuse? where's the fuse box? do i need to actually remove the air cleaner case and/or radiator reservoir tank to install the HID bulbs? will i have to do the "aiming adjustment" after i install the bulbs?

sorry i sound like an idiot. i'm just not great with cars.
 

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meanhoe said:
Can someone tell me how to remove the power fuse? where's the fuse box? do i need to actually remove the air cleaner case and/or radiator reservoir tank to install the HID bulbs? will i have to do the "aiming adjustment" after i install the bulbs?

sorry i sound like an idiot. i'm just not great with cars.
Fear not! We'll have you confidently up to your elbows in engine grease in no time! :D I'll have all of this info. for you within a couple of days. My LED 7443 clearance bulbs come in today and I'll do my 10k HID install along with these shortly thereafter. I'll do a write-up with pics that will answer all of your questions.

In the meantime, here are a couple of answers:
-you DO NOT have to pull any fuses
-You only have to remove the air filter box to access the driver's side bulb (very easy to do); access to the passenger side bulb is unobstructed.
-YOu should not have to re-aim the lights after installation, but I will double check and confirm this when I do mine.
 

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ShadyJC said:
To be clear -- the KELVIN is a unit of measurement for temperature, similiar to a DEGREE. Note that it is a Unit, not a Scale of temperature, like what we commonly know as Celsius or Fahrenheit - you need a unit and a scale together to properly express temperature, i.e. 90 degrees fahrenheit. A kelvin is a kelvin and that's it.
Actually, that's not entirely acurate. While you are correct in the terminology that a kelvins are kelvins and not DEGREES kelvin, this is only a matter of grammar (i.e. how it's referred to or written down). It IS a temperature scale (an extension or variation of the metric Celcius scale, also known as the absolute temperature scale); one kelvin (K) = 1 degree Celcius. Where the Celcius temperature scale is zeroed at the freezing point of water, the kelvin temperature scale is zeroed at what is referred to as "absolute zero", a hypothetical temperature characterized by a complete absence of heat energy (the point at which all molecular movement ceases), or - 273.15 degrees Celcius, below which temperatures do not exist.

The way that this relates to color temperature is that the kelvin happens to be the standard unit used. This is applicable to photography as well as astronomy (used to characterize the spectral properties of stars [the brightness of the light they emit {look up The Hertzsrung-Russell Diagram}]; a direct index to the surface temperature of the star.)

Here's more as it relates to film and photography:

Color temperature is a simplified way to characterize the spectral properties of a light source. While in reality the color of light is determined by how much each point on the spectral curve contributes to its output, the result can still be summarized on a linear scale.

This value is useful eg. for determining the correct film in photography depending on the lighting (resp. for determining the white balance in digital photography), and for specifying the right light source types in architectural lighting design. Note, however, that light sources of the same color (metamers) can vary widely in the quality of light emitted. One may have a continuous spectrum, while the other just emits light in a few narrow bands of the spectrum. A useful way to determine the quality of a light source is its color rendering index.

Low color temperature implies warmer (more yellow/red) light while high color temperature implies a colder (more blue) light. Daylight has a rather low color temperature near dawn, and a higher one during the day. Therefore it can be useful to install an electrical lighting system that can supply cooler light to supplement daylight when needed, and fill in with warmer light at night. This also correlates with human feelings towards the warm colors of light coming from candles or an open fireplace at night.

Standard unit for color temperature is Kelvin (k).

(The kelvin unit is the basis of all temperature measurement, starting with 0 k (= -273.16° C) at the absolute zero temperature. The "size" of one kelvin is the same as that of one degree Celsius, and is defined as the fraction 1/273.16 of the thermodynamic temperature of the triple point of water, which positions 0° Celsius at 273.16 k.)

Technically, color temperature refers to the temperature to which one would have to heat a theoretical "black body" source to produce light of the same visual color.

Some typical color temperatures are:

1500 k Candlelight

2680 k 40 W incandescent lamp

3000 k 200 W incandescent lamp

3200 k Sunrise/sunset

3400 k Tungsten lamp

3400 k 1 hour from dusk/dawn

5000-4500 k Xenon lamp/light arc

5500 k Sunny daylight around noon

5500-5600 k Electronic photo flash

6500-7500 k Overcast sky

9000-12000 k Blue sky


SO, to sum up: While the kelvin scale IS a temperature scale, in this application, it does not signify a temperature, but referrs to the color emitted by the bulbs.

Ok, Geek check: I taught Earth Science (inclusive of Astronomy) for six years. :)
 
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